Endometriosis: Hope, Healing & Practical Management Tools (Part 2)
Endometriosis can feel overwhelming, like a medical mystery that disrupts every aspect of your life. But it doesn't have to be a life sentence. Welcome back to the Bottoms Up podcast for Part 2 of our series on endometriosis, where we flip the script to focus on hope, healing, and empowering management tools for living with endometriosis. This episode is packed with practical strategies to help you navigate this complex, multi-system condition, from nutritional changes to nervous system regulation and mental health support.
If you've been searching for answers and practical steps to manage your endometriosis, this episode is for you. Dr. Winge shares invaluable insights and actionable advice, helping you discover what truly affects you, not just what the internet says. We dive deep into understanding your unique triggers and building a personalized care team, offering a pathway to significant shifts in your well-being.
Join us to uncover tools that can transform your daily life and bring relief from chronic pain and emotional weight. You're not alone, and healing is possible!
Transcript
Dr. Kerry Winge: Hi, I'm Dr. Kerry Winge, and welcome back to the Bottoms Up podcast. If you joined us for part one, you know that we took a deep dive into what endometriosis is, how it's diagnosed, and why it impacts so much more than just your periods. Today, we're flipping the script. We're going to focus on hope, healing, and what you can actually do to manage life with endometriosis. This episode is all about tools, meaning the nutritional changes, body work, physical therapy, mental health support, supplements, and the most important, your nervous system regulation. So grab a notebook or just listen in. We're about to get practical.
Nathaniel DeSantis: So let's say someone has just been diagnosed, or maybe they've suspected for a while that something isn't right. They're presumably overwhelmed. They don't know where to start. What's the move here, Kerry? What do you recommend as step one?
Dr. Kerry Winge: Well, I would say let's start with what you can control. That's always empowering. Endometriosis is a complex multi-system condition, and it affects more than just your reproductive system. So it's really important to zoom out and look at the full picture. But before we actually dive into all the specifics, I just want to say this. You're going to be okay. Yes, it can feel heavy. And yes, it might disrupt your life at times, but it can be managed. It's life altering, but it's not a life sentence.
Nathaniel DeSantis: Which is a big relief because as I mentioned this in part one, but I've seen this with my sister and my mom who both go through it. And sometimes it feels like it just has the ability to take over and consume your life. So how do you even start tracking it all without losing your mind?
Dr. Kerry Winge: Well, I'm glad you asked. The first real step is tracking your symptoms. And there are several apps out there designed to help, some great ones actually. We will link a few at the end of the podcast so listeners can check them out and see what feels like the right fit for them. But here's the thing, no app is perfect. Most of them can only analyze what you give them, and many are not built to fully capture the fact that endometriosis affects your gut, your mood, your energy, and your nervous system. You might end up trying to cram your experiences into their categories. And that's not helpful when you're already feeling like a medical mystery.
Nathaniel DeSantis: Yeah, and I've used a lot of different tracking apps, health tracking apps for myself. I mean, I do admittedly love tracking apps. I live by my Apple Health and my Apple Watch statistics every day. And some of them can, like what you're saying, some can be very good. But then others, you know, my girlfriend Emily and I, she suffers from really bad migraines. And we downloaded these apps and you end up just selecting other like five times a day. What's your symptom? Other. What's the cause? Other. Like at a certain point, I felt like the app owed me an explanation.
Dr. Kerry Winge: Exactly. So instead of relying only on a tech tool that might not speak your body's language, I suggest just going a little old school. What about using a printable or a digital daily tracker that allows you to log in everything? So your pain, fatigue, bloating, your bowel habits, your food intake, your mood shifts, but all in your own words. Because you're not doing it for somebody else's research study. You're actually doing it to help you.
Nathaniel DeSantis: That's right. So we're talking pen, paper, and the return of the binder clip.
Dr. Kerry Winge: Yes, and maybe a good gel pen if you're feeling fancy. But this kind of self-tracking actually is going to help you step away from the screen. It's going to give you time to reflect on your body and begin identifying your personal patterns because the truth is no two people with endometriosis are the same. And that's why they have individualized tracking. And it's very powerful. It's going to help you discover what's actually affecting you, not what the internet says should be affecting you.
Nathaniel DeSantis: Yeah. And, you know, from personal experience, I did a lot of, I think I've, I don't know if I've talked about this on the podcast. I lost like 70 pounds going on a keto diet, keto form, maybe what you want to call it. But when I started out, it was simply just tracking on pen and paper what I ate in a day. Because I felt like it was so important for me to understand what am I truly eating? What's going in my body? How do I feel when I eat those things? So this is obviously a little different than endometriosis, but I was tracking with paper, with a pen. And basically what it does is you're not boxed in by someone's drop-down menu because it's not one size fits all.
Dr. Kerry Winge: Yeah, it's true. And then you get that information. And then once you actually start identifying your unique triggers, you can begin figuring out like what kinds of support that you really need. So, you know, you just have the larger categories, whether that's pelvic floor therapy or nutrition changes, you might need a lot of nervous system work, but this will help you to find the right specialist and you can start building your team, and that's when things are going to start to shift.
Nathaniel DeSantis: Since we're talking about specialists Kerry, I know your practice you actually do a lot of those things because you run a fully integrative practice but unfortunately we have to be honest here that's not always easy to find in other areas of the country right? I'm in Atlanta. I can't just drop everything and come visit you. Or maybe it's out there, but it's not common. So if someone needs to sort of Frankenstein together their care team piece by piece, what can they do? Like, where do they even begin that process?
Dr. Kerry Winge: Nathaniel, that's such a great point. And yeah, I do have the luxury of working in a space where all of those things come together under one roof. But if you're building your care team from scratch, my best advice is, again, to start with the area where you're seeing the most need right now. Maybe it's nutrition, maybe gut health, gas, bloating, constipation, diarrhea. Maybe you're having pelvic pain with intimacy or menstrual pain that's stopping you in your tracks or fatigue, nervous system overload. Just have to see what area is shouting the loudest and go there first. But it's very important that the key is to go slow, especially with the gut. You do not want to overhaul everything at once because your body requires time to adjust to the changes.
Nathaniel DeSantis: Right. So it's the same thing I see in the gym every new year with people doing their resolutions. They just go all in and they go full speed ahead with everything.
Dr. Kerry Winge: Exactly. I mean, crash diets, they don't work. I don't want you to do a juice cleanse and definitely like don't reset your gut in three days, any of those gimmicks. They just are not effective. So if you're actually looking for the nutritional support, I recommend finding a holistic nutritionist and someone who will look at the full picture, not just your calories or your macros. You want somebody who's going to talk to you, talk to you about inflammation, talk to you about digestion and hormone balance, not somebody who's going to put you on the latest trend for TikTok.
Nathaniel DeSantis: So last time in the episode, we learned something which surprised me about how the gut is interacting with all of this with endometriosis and how, you know, that can lead to bloating and whatnot. But I think you called it a gut dysbiosis is a part of this. So, which immediately makes me wonder what dietary changes help with endometriosis.
Dr. Kerry Winge: Well, that's true. So endo is inflammatory and it is often tied to a leaky gut. So that means you want to reduce your inflammatory triggers. And the foods that will add to your inflammation are refined sugar, dairy, gluten, too much alcohol. But most important, I like to add in the gut healing foods. So bone broth is a good one. Fermented foods, if you can tolerate them, like sauerkraut, kimchi, kombucha. Cooked vegetables are always good. And foods that contain omega-3s, foods that contain omega-3s like wild salmon, flaxseed, walnuts, and also foods that are high in magnesium, which will relax your system. Pumpkin seeds, spinach, and dark chocolate, which everybody's good to hear. Fantastic.
Nathaniel DeSantis: I love that. I'll add it to my list. What I'll say is that with my interest in diet and health, something that I think stands out that I'll even point out here is I wonder if a lot of these things, bone broth, foods, veggies, omega-3, magnesium, I wonder if part of the reason they're working for people and making it more manageable is because if you look at that list and you go to the grocery store and you buy those things and you look at the label, chances are if you're buying pumpkin seeds, the only thing in that is pumpkin seed. If you're buying salmon, the only ingredient listed on there is salmon. But when you start getting gluten, refined sugars, dairy, alcohol, and you look at the label, then that's when it's like 30, 40, 50 different things where you can't even pronounce it. It's got preservatives. It has sugar, you know, all these things that we're trying to avoid to make our belly happy. And sometimes I wonder if it's, and I had this, and Kerry, maybe you have an answer. I wondered this when I went on Keto and Carnivore and I did so well and I responded so well. Is it not so much that I'm cutting out carbs, but more so I'm cutting out all the other junk that they're putting in our food? Could that also be part of it?
Dr. Kerry Winge: And the oils, both of them.
Nathaniel DeSantis: Yeah. Well, especially the seed oils, which are getting a bad rap right now. And I think rightfully so.
Dr. Kerry Winge: Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's about time that people learn what is in their food and the health literacy in the United States is horrible. So anything that we can do to educate, to help people make small changes, it's going to make a big difference, big impact on their health.
Nathaniel DeSantis: Yeah. Well, unfortunately, you know, there's a lot of money and all this stuff and there are a lot of people interested in making sure that people don't know these things. And marketing, oh, don't even get me started on marketing. You read the box and you think that you're getting what it says and then you look at the back and you're like. Interesting. Or my favorite, Skinny Pop, the popcorn. You feel thin eating. It's called Skinny Pop. You're like, oh, this has to be good for me. And then you look at the label, you're like, maybe a handful is fine, but when I eat the whole bag, it's no longer Skinny Pop.
Dr. Kerry Winge: Yeah, moderation is key. You have to live, but it's very important, you know, 80% do things well, 20% enjoy yourself a little more.
Nathaniel DeSantis: Yeah, and what I'll say for anyone with endometriosis, looking at these gut healing foods, I mean, you talk about dark chocolate. I allow myself one frozen chocolate covered strawberry every day as my like fun sugar, you know, it's an enjoyable food. It's sweet. It's got everything I need. And one or two of them, it's like maybe six, seven grams of carbs, including fiber and sugar. And it's a good way to manage it. And then you know what I found is that I look forward to that one piece of chocolate at the end of the day, and I value it so much more than when I was allowing myself to eat an unlimited amount of chocolate. And I know this is kind of a rabbit hole, but if you're hearing this and you think, well, this is so restrictive, this is what I have to do the rest of my life. It doesn't have to be restrictive, right? It's all about making those choices that fit in your life and fit in a way that's sustainable. So it's my little tangent right there. I had mentioned there's a lot of money involved in this. So that brings me to my next point. Are supplements helpful?
Dr. Kerry Winge: Yes, they are, but they need to be individualized. Some helpful ones actually include magnesium glycinate for pain, sleep, and muscle tension. Omega-3s, because they're anti-inflammatory like we already talked about. Probiotics are good as well for gut balance. Turmeric and curcumin are anti-inflammatory. And there's also digestive enzymes. So those are good if you feel bloated after meals. They help process gluten and dairy. But it's also important to understand the supplement that you're buying, the manufacturer who's making it and making sure that it is coming from a company that, you know, isn't processing wheat or nuts or anything else within their facilities. So it is a buyer beware. You have to educate yourself from where you're buying something from. Like I wouldn't walk into Walmart and buy a magnesium tablet. I think it's important if you really don't know where to go to buy your supplements, work with a functional nutritionist or a provider who actually understands and has education with functional nutrition. Your gut is going to be your second brain. So supporting it can actually lower the intensity of your symptoms significantly. So it is worth the time to check this information out.
Nathaniel DeSantis: So we've covered the nutrition angle. I've thrown in my thoughts in there. You know, that's unfortunately not always just a fix for some people. So what if someone is in pain all the time? And I mean that like deep, relentless pelvic pain that doesn't quit. What do you do then?
Dr. Kerry Winge: Yeah, you know, that's a big one. When someone is living in chronic pelvic pain, we really need to take that multilayered approach that we talked about. And one of the most powerful tools actually is physical therapy, but it's not your standard physical therapy. We're working with the fascia, which is the connective tissue that surrounds all the organs, and endometriosis itself can cause binding between those organs. So we use a technique called myofascial release, both externally and internally. So that means that I work with patients through the vaginal and the rectal walls, identifying where tissues are stuck and restoring mobility. And as a movement specialist, it's my job to figure out how someone is not moving functionally and why. Endometriosis itself can create what I call a spiderweb effect in the fascia. And unraveling that really takes a hands-on approach and a lot of experience.
Nathaniel DeSantis: So we're not talking about the kind of PT where you're on a treadmill next to someone doing bicep curls, right?
Dr. Kerry Winge: Definitely not. If you're seeking physical therapy for endo, you want someone who specializes in the internal work. So here in Morgantown, I've trained my team in the techniques and techniques that I've developed myself over the last 30 years. And yes, people actually can travel in to see me for intensives. We offer a five-day program where someone can stay nearby and receive the focus treatment if they need to, if they cannot find someone in their area who is going to be able to serve their needs. But that being said, in addition to hands-on medical treatment, movement is general and it's very key. But for endo, it's not about pushing yourself. It's about nourishing that movement. So say you have a day where you're having a difficult flare-up. We will have you focus on breath work, some gentle stretching, or some restorative yoga. And on more stable days, you might be able to do some walking, some light strengthening work, or some Pilates. And remember, it's really important for that lymphatic system. It has to drain properly, and it requires muscle movement to drain because the lymph system does not have its own pumping system. It is pumped and moved by your muscles. So walking, rebounding, or vibration plates can be helpful.
Nathaniel DeSantis: So instead of the typical advice of just push through it, it's more slow down, tune in, pay attention to your body.
Dr. Kerry Winge: Exactly. It's more decreased intensity with more intention. So the goal over time is to reduce both the intensity and the duration of your flare-ups by building a toolbox. A toolbox of movement, of breath work, therapy, and if needed, surgery or medication. So like we mentioned in part one, the excision surgery can be a very valuable tool and hormone regulating medications can be too. But we always aim to support the body as naturally as possible. It's so important to say this clearly. There is absolutely no shame in using all of the tools that are available.
Dr. Kerry Winge: And healing is not linear. One size does not fit all. It's personal. It's layered. It takes time. And when someone is in significant pain, it can be incredibly hard to engage in those natural strategies like the breath work or the gentle movement. Because the body is caught up in that pain spasm loop. So sometimes we need to step in with additional pharmacological support to actually break that cycle. And for some people, the medication might be part of their long-term management, and that is completely okay. It's not a weakness. It's not a failure. It's a tool. And our job as providers and as people navigating our own health is to figure out which tools serve us best and how to use them in ways that are safe and sustainable and support our goals.
Nathaniel DeSantis: We touched on this last time, but I really want to dig in a little bit deeper this time. How does the nervous system play into all of this?
Dr. Kerry Winge: Well, chronic pain actually rewires the brain. Your body starts to stay on high alert, which means like even minor discomfort like tight pants or mild bloating can feel extreme. So everything is heightened. And this is where the nervous system regulation becomes essential. So what can you do to help the nervous system? We utilize daily tools, and they can include vagus nerve stimulation, like humming or cold exposure or gargling, deep breathing with long exhales. We've already talked about meditation and there is a type of yoga called yoga nidra and it relaxes your system into a sleep-like state grounding walks and nature are beneficial as well as a progressive muscle relaxation and also a technique that we use a lot we utilize bilateral music.
Nathaniel DeSantis: I have heard that on TikTok where someone said it said bilateral music I think I've heard about that on TikTok where someone said it helped them with anxiety and trauma. And they mentioned the different frequencies and hertz, which a lot of people might be confused about. I'm fortunate in my job, I work with frequencies and hertz. I kind of know about it, but I don't really quite understand what it's actually doing. Like the whole thing really confuses me. So what's that about?
Dr. Kerry Winge: So it is a type of audio that plays alternating tones. So you're going to hear it in the left ear, the right ear, the left ear, the right ear. It goes back and forth in a rhythmic pattern. And you need to listen to it with headphones so that each side of your brain is gently stimulated one hemisphere at a time. So when people are talking about the hertz, they're actually referring to the frequency of the sound waves. And some tracks are designed with lower frequencies like 40 hertz or 80 hertz, which can feel more grounding. And others use a higher frequency that can feel energizing or clearing. But the true therapeutic part just isn't in the frequency it's the left right alternation that engages both sides of your brain and relaxes your nervous system.
Nathaniel DeSantis: So it's less about the thing you're listening to the song the music whatever it is and it's more about how the sound moves through your ears into your brain and if you guys remember back to high school, you know, sound is on a sine curve, right? So it kind of flows up and down. So it's more so about how that sine curve is coming into your ear canal and into your brain, right?
Dr. Kerry Winge: Yes. It's the pattern of the playlist and the alternating simulation mimics what your brain naturally does during REM sleep. And it's also the basis of EMDR therapy for trauma. This left-right activation actually helps the brain process stuck emotional content, and it can help down-regulate your pain and shift from your fight-or-flight into the rest and digest mode.
Nathaniel DeSantis: So what kind of pain or stress does this actually help with? Like, who is this for?
Dr. Kerry Winge: The bilateral stimulation is incredibly helpful for people with chronic stress or anxiety, PTSD, or unresolved trauma. But chronic pain, especially when the system is on high alert, is perfect for the bilateral music or anyone who actually feels stuck in an emotional overwhelm and can't come down from that wired but tired state. So it's not about erasing your pain. It's about helping your brain reprocess it and regulate it in a more balanced way so that when you do feel pain, which is important because it's information for your body, but we don't want a very, very light sensation to be felt as a heavy, sharp pain. And that's what happens when your system is so upregulated.
Nathaniel DeSantis: You mentioned that you have to use headphones for this. I can't just listen to it on my laptop out loud. Why is that?
Dr. Kerry Winge: Well, it's about the ear-specific input that stimulates both hemispheres of the brain. It's that rhythmic, calming way. And you need the headphones for that.
Nathaniel DeSantis: And I will say, since I'm a podcast producer, I happen to actually have a little bit of expertise when it comes to sound. It is my job, after all.
Dr. Kerry Winge: I hope so.
Nathaniel DeSantis: I feel right. What I will say, if you want a good pair of headphones for this, the Audio-Technica A-T-H-M-40-X, it's a mouthful, is a great pair of headphones. I think they cost like a hundred dollars. They're over your headphones. The reason I suggest that is a lot of modern headphones that aren't made for studio use add processing to the sound coming through. So when you put on your AirPods, whatever it is, Apple, Sony, whoever makes your headphones are usually applying some type of EQ to that noise. And so, if the frequency and hertz have to be a specific range, you want a headphone that's not going to impede with that sound coming through and do any type of processing to it, which is why a studio headphone like the ATH-M40X is a really good and affordable option. It's $100. I've had a pair that I've had a pair that we've used for like four years I mean they last a while too so it's not a huge investment for how long they'll last but definitely look into that just so you're getting the right tones because you don't want to get headphones that have the wrong frequency pattern and then it's not working and you're like well this is just not going to work for me because maybe it's just the headphones so look into that.
Dr. Kerry Winge: Are they wireless?
Nathaniel DeSantis: They're wired they're wired headphones so if you have USB-C you need to get an adapter for it but wireless headphones generally if it's Bluetooth will also probably have a degree of pattern interference and we want to avoid that with something like this so just keep that in mind, but let's talk about what's going on with the vagus nerve here we love talking about the vagus nerve.
Dr. Kerry Winge: We really do. Every day. Bilateral music actually stimulates that vagus nerve indirectly by calming the brain, slowing down your breathing, and lowering your heart rate. It actually eases the whole nervous system into regulation. So think about, it's almost like an audio massage for your brainstem. Because when your brain feels safe, your body stops bracing. You know, your pain slows down, your digestion improves, your sleep deepens, and you're less likely to spiral from small discomforts into those full-blown flares.
Nathaniel DeSantis: So how often should someone do or listen to bilateral music every day just when they're feeling off?
Dr. Kerry Winge: Well, great question. I think it's important to use it daily. It's basically nervous system hygiene, just like you brush your teeth. So you want your body to get used to being in a relaxed state in order for it to respond appropriately when you have a fight or flight situation. You can try it 10 to 15 minutes in the morning or before bed. And you can utilize it during a flare-up or a panic episode. So it doesn't have to be just once a day. If you're having a difficult day, you can use it multiple times. It's also good to have it after having like a hard conversation or a stressful appointment. And it can relax your system while journaling or meditating or doing breathwork. But I like to use bilateral music when I am doing mundane tasks that are completely boring to me, like folding laundry or cleaning the house, because it allows my system to just relax at a task that I'm just not really excited about. And then for some people, the calming effect is immediate within a few minutes. And for others, it builds up over time. It's kind of like, I don't know, physical therapy for your nervous system. So you get stronger the more you practice it. So you're going to be able to get relaxed more quickly if you use it more often.
Nathaniel DeSantis: Just like meditation as well.
Dr. Kerry Winge: Exactly keep on.
Nathaniel DeSantis: Practicing. Can anyone do this? Is there a reason someone should not do this?
Dr. Kerry Winge: It's definitely safe for most people so then again everybody's an individual so if you have severe trauma or if listening to bilateral music tends to trigger an emotional flooding. I think it's important to talk with a therapist who uses it in practice. And then people with certain neurological conditions like epilepsy should definitely consult their provider first. But it's important to listen to your body. If it feels agitated instead of calming down, pause and come back to it later. You also might want to use it just for a couple minutes at a time and start to build your tolerance. Other than that, I think it's an accessible, non-invasive, a free tool that you can use at home, at work, or even in the car, as long as you're parked. You know, and it's good with your eyes closed. So no when driving, no when running in traffic, you know what I mean? So that's like our little PSA. But, you know, five to 10 minutes a day can help shift your system. And when your brain starts to feel safe again, it actually reduces how loudly it actually broadcasts those pain signals, which is why we feel that it's going to be an effective tool to managing endo.
Nathaniel DeSantis: Okay. Well, everyone look up your bilateral tones, bilateral music. You might be able to find it on YouTube if you search bilateral beats. That's another popular name for it. So look for those bilateral tones.
Dr. Kerry Winge: It's also under EMDR. You can search EMDR. Oh, okay, cool. Apple music. Yeah. And it's free.
Nathaniel DeSantis: Really? Whoa, look at that.
Dr. Kerry Winge: The other thing I wanted to mention, too, is that, you know, when you're searching it, let's just use Apple Music as an example, and then you get a whole album that happens to be free. There's going to be some songs that are really comfortable and they feel good to you and it matches with your system and others are going to be just not as appealing. So just push the fast forward button and find something that works for you.
Nathaniel DeSantis: Yeah.
Dr. Kerry Winge: Make it easy.
Nathaniel DeSantis: If you do it on Apple Music, which I didn't know they had that. I'm going to have to check that out after this. Go to your settings for Apple Music and turn on lossless audio because again that will make sure that there's no weird things happening to the audio track. I definitely recommend that as well what is that again.
Dr. Kerry Winge: Can you repeat that.
Nathaniel DeSantis: Lossless audio so on Apple Music the music you're is usually compressed into like an mp3 or an aac there are a lot of different audio files some are compressed, some are uncompressed, which is what lossless means. So a little lesson on audio here, Kerry, right now, when we're recording, we were recording a wave file that is a lossless audio file. So everything's being preserved in its integrity. You want that? Yeah, it is really cool. Yeah. It's my job. Do some cool things. So you want that though, when you're listening to this, because again, you don't really want to get the wrong beats going in there. That being said, if they are the wrong beats or they're off a bit, I'm sure it doesn't have to be 10 Hertz exactly on the dot. I'm sure some slight variations. Okay. And like what Kerry said, just press, press next, you know, listen to your body. That's kind of the whole theme. Listen to how your body feels with it. And if that one isn't doing it for you, just move on to the next one. It's fine. You'll find when that works. There is, on the other side of endometriosis, there's the other type of pain, which is emotional pain and emotional weight that comes with endo. So what tools, what tools exist out there that address this emotional side of endometriosis?
Dr. Kerry Winge: Yeah, I agree with you. There are tools because it does impact your identity, your relationships, your career, intimacy, energy. Mental health support is vital and it depends on what works for you again might be therapy or counseling you might enjoy group support like Nancy's Nook or creative outlet like art or journaling it's really important to learn to set the boundaries around your time your energy your job and even the conversations that you're willing to have yeah.
Nathaniel DeSantis: And you can't let this just live in your head because shame, emotions, jealousy, anxiety, everything associated with endo that you might get, it thrives in silence. And that's why communities and connections are so important to people with endometriosis and connecting with the people who can help them with it.
Dr. Kerry Winge: Exactly. I mean, when you connect with others who understand that healing really starts to ripple.
Nathaniel DeSantis: Okay, so aside from PT, supplements, food, what about non-surgical medical options?
Dr. Kerry Winge: Well, there's plenty. It just depends on what your goals are. There's hormonal suppression therapy, birth control or GNRH agonists, birth control of IUDs, nerve blocks or trigger point injections. Those would be given from a pain specialist. There's also functional medicine testing for hormones, food sensitivities, and toxins within the environment, acupuncture, or a TENS unit for pain modulation. But again, it's about stacking your strategies. So there's rarely one magic fix. It's just that many small shifts, they do add up.
Nathaniel DeSantis: Yeah. And I love the analogy you used earlier. Someone used it earlier, kind of relating it to January goals, New Year resolutions, how people go all in. But there's so much here. It's food, movement, your nervous system, therapy. And what I love is that it's not all or nothing and you can start small, right? Baby steps every day.
Dr. Kerry Winge: You can. And it doesn't matter whether you change, you know, your breakfast or begin stretching or simply say like, no, more often. Each small change honors your body and it brings you closer to relief. So you're not broken. You know, pain is not your personality, and healing is possible. And you're absolutely not alone.
Nathaniel DeSantis: Well, I think we're coming to the point where it's time to wrap this up. So thank you, Dr. Kerry. I know this conversation is going to help a lot of people feel seen and understood. And for those listening, make sure you hit subscribe if you like this. Follow the podcast, YouTube, wherever you get podcast apps. Leave a comment for us. Let us know what you're thinking about this. Or let the community know what has worked for you with your endometriosis, if you have it. Or if you have a loved one that has endometriosis, What has worked for them? Because this is like what we said, this is part of it, is that community. So leave us a comment and maybe someone else will learn from that and maybe have a slightly better life because of that. So, yes.
Dr. Kerry Winge: And in our next episode, we're actually going to dive into something deeply important. We're going to be continuing that pelvic pain series and we're going to talk about pelvic pain and intimacy. We are going to talk about relationships, self-esteem and what we can do to heal emotionally and physically when pain becomes very personal. It's going to be a powerful one. And we're going to see you next time on the Bottoms Up podcast. Thank you so much for your time and joining us today.